Intermittent Fasting has a New Name….Intermittent Feeding
For a long time I’ve used the initials “IF” to stand for “Intermittent Fasting”, but from now on I’m also going a different route. “IF” will now also be known as “Intermittent Feeding”! From this point on (although the science backs up the health and fat loss benefits for “fasting”), we are also going to focus on “feeding”. Eating real foods, enjoying what we eat and using that with an IF protocol.
Why the change?
The focus of IF should be on eating, eating healthy and enjoying food.
The idea came to me as I was finishing up and revising my ebooks. I was looking at talking about IF with the focus on “fasting” and was reminded of all the mainstream negative reactions that come with that.
People saying things like “Oh you are starving yourself”….or “That’s just crash dieting”. I decided if I was going to go more mainstream I wanted to avoid all the preconceived negative notions that came along with it.
IF is not about starvation, it’s not about crash dieting, and it’s not about quick weight loss (even if results may happen quickly for some).
To me it’s all about a lifestyle and lasting approach to improving your health, redefining your relationship with food, to reduce unnatural cravings, get back in tune with the natural survival design of our bodies, optimizing your glucose energy metabolism (which will in turn make you more effective in burning, and not storing, fat) and just an easy and simple approach to lasting results.
Heck people are out there breaking through weight loss plateaus just using IF and not changing up anything else!
So from now on….the “F” in “IF” should also be about “Feeding”. We are going to focus on eating (even if it is with a more condensed eating window daily). The fasting part of course does happen, but this is not where I want most people’s focus to be (especially those new to the concept). Food is still going to be vital to our health.
Taking it to the Streets
Look out world....I'm now going to start giving you the truth and a simple way to eat...are you ready?
I’ve always believed in the potential of IF for anyone to use since I first came across it many many years ago. Having trained people over the years, I know realistically what people will and will not do.
All those complicated eating protocols (6 meals a day, measured portions, etc) may work for some, but for many it’s just not an easy nor realistic lasting approach (as they will not keep this up). So what good is a plan for eating if you are not going to stick with it?
Along came IF and it’s simplistic approach to actually getting results, improving energy moods, and a sense of freedom from all the complicated approaches that are seen everywhere.
I truly believed this was something people needed to know about as it really was so simple but had so much great potential to help people find a lifestyle that did work for them (and had so many other health benefits as well!).
So now with the final completion of my ebooks and coaching audio files (almost a year in the works), I am taking to spreading the word full time! No more working as training in gyms for me, from now on my career is going out there and trying to help spread the simple message of IF and how it can be a simple and rewarding lifestyle for most anyone out there (when used correctly of course). Real solutions for real people is my new motto!
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Comments/Discussion
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Good for you Mike. I am glad to see you making the choice to put in so much effort promoting something worthwhile.
My personal experience with IF really reshaped my thoughts about food. I used to be really anal about food choices, meal timing etc. Now after my 1 year stint with intermittent fasting(or feeding!) I am completely free from any BS issues I once had with food.
I was never to the point of having a disorder but struggled with the whole clean and unclean eating dogma. I struggled with binge eating on occasion and I even became somewhat of a social pariah due to not wanting to break my diet.
I do not practice IF anymore due to scheduling issues but it was probably the best thing I have ever done for myself as it reshaped my relationship with food.
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Anna Reply:
It’s my 4th year of IF. I must say my appearance and health had greatly improved. I eat as usual except not as frequent as others. It seems like I cannot give up IF as it is going to be my long term lasting health program.
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You may find this intriguing and synchronistic even…
I did a coconut oil fast yesterday and today I reached a new kind of understanding about eating. I used to *live in the food* and any pause from eating had a kind of anxiety to it. But now I will live in the fast and eating will have a kind of anxiety to it — but this is a healthy anxiety. If I am to break my fast I must do it with health! Now my eating choices will be from intelligence, not compulsion or boredom. Fasting is the norm, eating has the emphasis.
***Instead of interrupting my eating with a fast I now interrupt my fast with an eating!*** This is a Copernican Revolution of eating!!!
110 years old, here I come! I love IF-ing and its only been a few days since i learned of it. It has already revolutionized my life. So thank you for this blog.
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[...] “Intermittent Fasting Has a New Name…Intermittent Feeding“, Life [...]
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very good decision. had a similar thought just yesterday. many more people likely to be open to the lifestyle now.
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I likey! Much better than sounding like some sort of religious freak (tautology, I know), and better still than the Warrior Diet’s “under-eating and over-eating”, cos that’s just bad juju right there. Even though the word feeding has connotations of breast-feeding and other infantile or animal links, it’s still the best so far. I tend to tell people that I focus on my dinner as the main meal of the day, which tends to dodge my having to reveal that I don’t often eat at any other point in the day. And since these days I feel sleepy after eating (which is either a conditioned response to eating in the evening, or a physiological issue like hypoglycaemia – here’s hoping it’s the former!), it’s even more reason not to eat during my working hours.
Hey, since I only eat one meal per day usually, and it’s a biggie, I’m going to call my version of IF Intermittent Feasting
Food is a celebration for me; even though I’ve broken the dopamine addiction, I still experience so much pleasure crafting and compiling attractive meals for myself and my beau.
All the best for the eBook – the more informed texts out there in cyberspace for the masses to stumble upon, the better! And although I can’t afford to be your customer, I’m happy to lend my voice to the IF chorus – my weight was lost by cutting grains, sugar and starchy veggies, but IF has taken my physical strength and enjoyment of food to a whole other level! I feel so fit and free, especially since I’m no longer chained to ‘social eating times’. A very handy thing when you are rushing around for the bulk of the day!
Congrats again!
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Jess, I just want to comment on your statement about IF being so convenient. I think one of the main things that changed my mind about IF was that I found I could get so much more done due to not worrying about food all day long. I could schedule my meals until later in the afternoon and get all my work done before returning home to feast.
Say I needed 3500 kcals for the day… I would break my fast at like 3:30 with a decent sized meal, workout a few hours later, chow down on milk, cereal, rice and a few pounds of potatoes post workout then have another huge meal + ice cream before bed.
This did 2 things for me. It allowed me to be a lot more productive and also allowed me to eat until satisfied instead of feeling deprived on bird sized meals 5-6x per day.
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JC – You hit the nail on the head about IF helping people to get rid of any emotional “issues” with foods. That to me is the biggest problem for most out there, emotional ties and desires….otherwise we all know what the healthy choices are, but we just don’t make them for some reason. Now with IF…I am in control and free from all those past issues. Great thing about IF…is just use it whenever your schedule allows…..you make it whatever can work for you….as it’s not a diet, just a tool to use (intermittently)…..even 1x a week can work to help keep that body alert and stronger at the hormonal level (all about hormesis and the stress-response benefit).
Shadow – Great to hear that you are now in control of that anxiety of periods between eating. We always like to stress healthy eating…but like you say, for many they can not go long periods (like a couple hours) without needing to snack and eat…and then the focus on the quality of food is gone. Quality of food + IF will lead to amazing and lasting results for weight loss and health! I’ll see you at 110 (or as they say, die trying).
Adam – Yes and it’s all about trying to keep people’s minds open to something new. If they try it and don’t like it, well that is their decision….but I know there is a large amount that will try and love it…like I did and so many else. Focusing on the fasting will shut too many minds quickly…..but focusing on feeding, well hopefully that will keep more doors open for people to see if it can help their lives. As it’s all about just living healthier….and happier (without all those emotional disorders over foods and eating we have today).
Jess – Yes when dealing with people it’s always best in my mind to not emphasis “feasting”….only because of what people will actually “feast” on. Now if someone is eating all Paleo foods and feasting….have at it! But the mainstream is farrrrr from Paleo food choices. As I like to say “IFOC” (IF on Crap) won’t work…..and is not the goal. People don’t have to eat 100% clean to see results with IF or course, as long as they are not going into the desert cart head first when it comes to eating. Glad you found IF to work for you…..now enjoy for a lifetime!
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Also in the new ebook….instead of talking about 18 hr Intermittent Fasting or 24 hr Intermittent Fasting….I have taken out the 18/24 numbers and replaced them with feeding windows. Such as doing a 6 hr Intermittent Feeding window 3x a week….or a 3 hr feeding window 1-2x a week. Just another way at looking at it differently….as in the end it all comes about the same as the fasting hours….it just doesn’t lead to needing any complicated formulas about time past and when to eat next….that and some will confuse a 24hr fast with not eating for a whole day, which is not 24 hrs but more like 32+. So the focus is always about eating daily…..it’s just about using some simple intermittent condensed eating windows to accomplish the IF part.
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I have a client right now who is on a hypercaloric diet with one 24-hour fast weekly. It’s going to be interesting gathering all the data.
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I bought your book which is a marvel in graphic design. I have a question.
What should I do with medicine that I must take morning and evening with food?
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Jake – glad you like the layout! As for meds, that is really something to be worked out with your doctor…as I don’t know what you are on, how it needs to be absorbed and consequences of not taking it with food. Also, if you put that same question into the forums (with what you are specifically on and why) there may be people out there to share their experiences who have either taken the same medication or have discussed with their doctor already. The IF community out there is pretty big, so never hurt to ask them for help as well.
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I have been doing a good bit of reading on the IF technique and I am very interested in giving it a try. I had a question, I normally work out first thing in the morning in a fasted state. This works well for me since I have tried having a pre-workout meal and it seemed to negatively affect my workouts. After my workout, I wait an hour or so to have a protein shake (no-carbs). Would this be allowed on the “fasting days”? Thanks.
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DWood (David?) – Best part about IF, just give it a try and see what happens…never know….might actually be one of us crazy IF people after a while! lol. No seriously many love fasted workouts, but are you asking about having a protein shake on fasting days? Typically a fast should be a fast…..but you can do a couple things, like maybe take some basic BCAAs pre-workout instead, do IF days on non-workout days (but you can still of course do workouts fasted on other days), or just focus on eating enough protein during your eating hours. You may find out that you do not lose muscle after all if you don’t have a protein shake right after a workout. Experiment and find the schedule that works for you best. Remember the “I” in IF too….intermittent….so it doesn’t have to be every day.
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Just to add to what Mike said: Perhaps you could train the AM, have your post workout meal, then do a 24 hour fast from that point on. Just fast up until that same time the next day and go from there.
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Mike OD,
Actually, it is Damon. Thanks for the information. I think I was a little confused about the fasting process. My concern was going through two workouts before taking in any food. I think the suggestion made by JC would work best for me. I’m looking forward to seeing what my results are like over the next few months. I’m a bodybuilding convert looking to drop a lot of weight. Thanks again.
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Damon – Also be sure to check out http://www.leangains.com too if you have a chance. Martin has some great info on there about IF and workouts as well. He also did a guest post here: http://theiflife.com/fitness/2008/06/27/intermittent-fasting-guest-post-sure-fire-fat-loss/
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Mike OD,
Thanks for the links. It is good to read about normal everyday people getting good results with IF. After going through this site, I feel a little upset at the time I spent following the methods suggested by bodybuilders. I’m going to do my first 24hr fast tomorrow after my workout. We’ll see how it goes….
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Mike OD,
I had one more question regarding IF. I am trying to find the appropriate workouts when using this approach. I currently go to the gym first thing in the morning for about 90 minutes 6x a week. I do about 30 minutes of weights and 60 minutes of cardio switching between the bike, elipitical, and stair master. On some days, 20 minutes of my cardio with be of the HIIT variety and I will end the session with 40 minutes of steady state to burn the fat released in the blood stream. For weights I work out one body part a day for 8-10 total sets plus do ab work every other day. I have been doing this for a while and recovery has never been a problem, however my diet has not been what it should be (too many carbs). I have seen the light and decided to do IF plus eat more paleo style. I want to lose the maximum about of fat over the next few months and I wanted to know what would be a good workout to try now that my diet is what it should be? Over the years I have built a good amount of muscle (5’9 235lbs) so I am not concerned with building more just maintaining most of what I have. Thanks.
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not Mike, but IMO, that is too much work whilst being in a deficit. I think you will see better results with your fat loss pursuits if you tone it down a bit. Maybe do one or the other on each training day but not both cardio and weight training. I am just thinking for long(er) term success because if you are really doing this much work, it’s just a matter of time before you burn out.
As far as workouts go, why don’t you move to a split that incorporates more body parts. Perhaps an upper/lower split or try hitting everything ever 5th day(which would end up being every other day). Then on rest days do your steady state cardio, maybe throw 1-2 HIIT sessions in there a week if that is your thing.
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JC,
Thanks for the input. It may seem like a lot of work but I have been doing a schedule similar to this for about 5 years. If I was feeling a little worn down or burnt out before/during a workout, I would just call it a day and rest up for 1-2 days. That seems to have done the trick to keep me from getting too worn down. By the way, I have a desk job so I don’t get a lot of physical activity in outside of the gym so when I am in there I put in work.
I think your suggestions for a split would be worth giving a try. I’m in the gym from Monday – Saturday resting on Sunday. How would you schedule the body parts and what would be the total number of sets you would do for each body part? Remember I just want to maintain. Thanks for the input.
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ahh. I can relate to the desk work.
perhaps you could set up your workouts every other day in the ABA format. So on week 1 it would be ABA and week 2 it would BAB.
A = upper body
B = lower body
Since you are aiming to maintain what you have currently built, it’s not going to take a ton of volume or work. you should aim to get about 30-40 reps per body part per session. As long as intensity(weight on bar) is maintained, you will keep your LBM.
So an example of what the volume might look like for an upper day within the 30-40 rep range goals
bench 3×5
row 3×5
dips(or other chest movement) 2×10-12
chins 2×10-12
shoulders are already hit pretty well with pressing and rowing so do like 2×10 of lateral raises or upright rows.
arms would be 2×10 of bicep and tricep work as they were hit indirectly with the compounds.
you would repeat this same type of set up with lower body movements.
this should allow you to get a lil more frequency + keep the intensity up to preserve your LBM whilst being in a deficit.
then on your off days, since you sit a lot do some of your favorite cardio whether it be sports, walking, jogging or the occasional HIIT(just keep it to no more than 1-2x per week and preferably not around leg days)
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DWood – lots of ways, just keep it simple…but sounds like you got the system down, just need to get a more “fat burning” friendly environment on the off days as well. Personally I like it simple and less time in a gym…so I’d do more full body movements with heavier weight/less reps (5-8) in a circuit 3x a week, then do some slower paced cardio after. Use the other days to just be active doing what you enjoy. You can also try some fasted workouts, or longer fasts/shorter eating windows on the off days. It’s all about improving that glucose metabolism (less fasting insulin and insulin resistance), so it lets you burn that fat. That and you may want to cycle those carbs.
It’s not released yet…but we are doing another big redesign very soon and here’s a sneak peak at the new fat loss course (one of a couple courses) that will be available: http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/university/fatloss.htm
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JC:
Thanks for the program. It looks like a good change of pace for me.
Mike OD:
A trainer at the gym today suggest a workout similar to the one you suggested. I have been doing a 5-6 day split for at least three years now. I think it is definitely time that I considered something different. What was suggested was a full body workout circuit performed 3 times a week performing and mixing steady state/HIIT on the other days.
In regards to the fasting, I did the 24 fast today. It doesn’t seem to be that bad. I think I’ll end up doing 1-2 a week and check out the results in a month or so. I have started paying more attention to my carb intake. My results would have been so much better with all the working out I am doing if I had eliminated a lot of the simple carbs from my diet sooner. Oh well, you live and you learn. In any case, thanks for the advice.
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Eliminating simple carbs is not going to have much of an effect granted calories are controlled. You can get 100g carbs from sugar or oatmeal and as long as you are in a deficit you will lose weight. there is no magic in eating fewer simple carbs.
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Um, sure JC, except that eating high GL carbs will have your blood sugar all over the place, hunger will be triggered every time your blood sugar drops, and as a result trying to control your calories will be a miserable, unpleasant experience. If you keep your blood sugar stable, you won’t feel ‘false hunger’ and won’t obsess over your food. Controlling your calories often happens spontaneously when you cut back on your carbs. And that’s not even getting into how devastating the addition of grains into the human diet has been on our bodies…
No, it’s not magic, it’s basic biology.
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yes, and you completely misunderstood my point.
I wasn’t talking about the hunger response that simple sugars may give someone as that is highly subjective. Heck I consume simple sugars daily in the form of cocoa puffs. I do this even when I am dieting with no hunger problems whatsoever. However, that is besides the point.
My point was that in a deficit, energy must come from somewhere… So as long as you keep protein high, maintain intensity and ensure a deficit, you will lose body fat. there is no getting around that. It doesn’t matter if your energy kcals are in the form of fats, simple sugars, sweet potatoes, candy bars etc. As long as a deficit IS present, it doesn’t matter where energy kcals come from.
Is it healthier to make your diet rich in fruits, veggies and unsaturated fats? Sure it is, but those foods aren’t the magic bullet to losing fat.
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JC:
Yes, you are correct that a calorie deficit is needed. By cutting out the simple carbs from my diet, I have eliminated a ton of unnecessary calories. I’ve made up for some of them by increasing the protein.
Jess:
You are dead one in regards to the false hunger pains etc. I was experiencing what you described in your post. I think I am one of those “carb sensitive” individuals. I have to be very careful about the ones I eat. Prior to making the switch, I think my blood sugar was all over the place, definitely not a good environment for burning fat. Now I think I have a much better handle on the diet aspect.
JC/Jess/Mike OD:
Thanks for all the input guys. I think I am on my way to getting in great shape over the next three months.
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cool DWood, I am subscribed, so keep us posted
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So far the fasting and paleo stuff seems to be doing the trick. The scale is finally moving again after months on being stuck. Seeing things moving in the right direction gives me a lot of motivation to stick with my plan.
I had a question about the once a week “cheat day”. Someone mentioned to me that this was necessary to keep my metabolism from permanently slowing down because of the reduced calories. I’m paranoid about slowing progress by not sticking to what is working for me. Is this cheat day very necessary or is the slowing metabolism thing overblown? Thanks.
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A free meal is usually a good idea. Now the frequency of these free meals is completely up to you. Some do it 1-2 times per week. I personally prefer a high carb refeed every 7 – 10 days. I think it’s smart to eat above maintenance every once in a while on a diet for psychological as well as physiological reasons.
When you do a high carb/low fat refeed you get a leptin bump which basically tells your body that it’s not starving.
so perhaps ever 10 days you could have 1 refeed day. This is all variable and depends on how fat you are currently. The leaner you are the more often you will need a refeed. The fatter, the longer you can go without one.
Example: say you were doing a refeed every 10 days. You would aim to eat 500 kcals above maintenance intake. Make the majority of your kcals in the form of carbs and keep it low fat.
say your maintenance is 3000 kcals at a bodyweight of 200lbs. you goal intake for the refeed would be:
3500 kcals
200g protein(1g/lb)
560g carbs
50g fat(make sure to get your EFA’s)
you would want to make sure your carbs are low in fiber, think white rice, bagels, pasta etc. spread it out through the day. You will probably wake up the next day dry and lean depending on your water intake.
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JC,
Thanks for the detailed information. I think I will use your every 10 days suggestion. I have a bit of body fat to take off so I think I can go a number of days without a refeed day. By the way, you seem to really know your stuff. Are you a personal trainer? Thanks again for all the free advice.
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No problem DWood. I bet the 10 day plan will work well. Judging by your comment, you could probably spread it out to 14 days if you are above 15% body fat without any problems.
Thanks for the compliments. I do some training and consulting, yes.
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DWood,
Like JC says, higher day carb refeeds are beneficial to boosting the hormones linked in with the metabolism such as leptin. If you get your glucose metabolism more efficient with using IF, paleo food choices, and carb control (or just sticking to Paleo carbs)…once you improve insulin, resistance issues and keep your metabolism strong (not starving yourself or doing too much excess exercise that will drive down the metabolism)….the weight comes off. Remember it’s a hormonal process (as described in the link above the for fat loss course) and not from doing a lack of cardio or some other mainstream crap like that. Exercise helps of course, but smart exercise works….not just doing more and more higher intensity cardio.
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I agree Mike. People seem to get wrapped up in the idea that more HIIT is better. It’s definitely not smart to up your HIIT sessions during a diet.
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Mike OD,
I have to admit that I have been known to go a bit overboard on the exercise. Although I am doing a lot of exercise now, I have actually considered doing two-a-day cardio sessions like many professional bodybuilders. After doing a bit of reading and trying out IF/paleo eating, I am convinced that most of the fat loss comes from dieting so I won’t be increasing my time in the gym. Currently, I am staying with my current workload but I will probably back off a bit once I start to feel as if I am not recovering enough between workouts.
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DWood – If your cardio is a brisk walk 2x a day….have at it. Most BB in competition don’t do anything high heart rate for fear of losing muscle (that and their diets wouldn’t support any higher intensity bouts). Doing a fast paced spin class 2x a day is not the best way. If people over exercise…their recovery demands increase…then they eat more….which is a ridiculous circle of breaking even after a while for most. There are skinny people who don’t do crap all day….but by modern mentality because they are not active they should be overweight…..but of course that is not the case. Exercise in moderation helps, but just being active at a slower pace will get better results longterm since you wont also be increasing your calorie demands in the process and overeating. Remember….you burn fat in an “aerobic” state (with oxygen)…the only other state is anaerobic (which you would know by lactic acid buildup, such with lifting weights). So…unless you are lifting weights, you are in the aerobic state…..all day…..every day. Eat and move to burn fat all day long….not just during “cardio”.
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JC/MIke OD,
I am not sure if someone covered this topic. Does the consumption of diet drinks like Crystal Light, etc during a fast lower the effectiveness of the approach? I drink about 2 liters of water but I like to mix in some other drinks with taste to keep from going insane during a fast. I’m aware of the possible issues with artificial sweeteners so I plan to remove from my diet as I progress. Thanks.
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no, they will not hinder your progress. bottoms up.
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Anything with a sweet taste will provoke an insulin response even though it might not contain any calories. The goal of the fast for weight loss is to be insulin free as long as possible so that your body will use your body stores of fat.
So go with non-sweet flavorings for your water if you want to lose weight.
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DWood – try adding in some freshly squeezed REAL lemon for taste…..the real stuff is always much better than artificial sweeteners and the unknown effects they have long term on your health (and metabolism).
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Jake/MIke OD,
Thanks for the information. I had no idea that the artificial sweeteners would cause an insulin response. I have been doing well with the fasting and now I realize that I have been screwing it up by having artificial sweetened drinks. Well I am completely on H2O now.
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DWood – while calorie wise they will not hinder weight loss….it’s just another gamble as far as insulin response. That and if you are going to fast for the main metabolic/glucose metabolism benefits (aka no insulin responses)…then you fast with water….if you are just using IF to condense eating windows for less calories, then diet drinks won’t really negate that strategy. In the end, I will always go with “no artificial sweeteners” for long-term health and metabolic factors, and to get the most out of using an IF protocol…..otherwise you could just also eat/nibble all day long with less calories overall (like a typical diet plan).
Here’s a quick interesting read:
http://books.google.com/books?id=zzDE_fraj8IC&pg=PA283&lpg=PA283&dq=insulin+response+sweeteners&source=bl&ots=kL_FXWXDiu&sig=ru2hm4QNg4seCssZZmPZEi4-mAQ&hl=en&ei=B4wlSvGnIYOktgfBsNTmBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3
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No Jess. Under-eating and over eating is right on! There is no total fast in either phase. Under-eating as you know is a detox of the body- not a fast. And the importance of over eating AFTER IF (sleep) and under-eating is to accelerate metabolism. As a diabetic- this diet is nearly perfect because I can really eat real food once a day.
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Mike OD,
I just wanted to provide an update on my progress using IF + Paleo + HIIT. So far I am down from 235 to 223. That is the good news. The bad news is that during the last week I lost about 2lbs of muscle. I have a feeling that I might be doing too much cardio. I have been working out six days a week. Three of those days I do a full body weight work out followed by 60 minutes of steady state cardio and on the other days I do 20 minutes of HIIT followed by 40 minutes of steady state cardio. I am able to handle this amount of exercise without any problems but I think I may need to cut back on the steady state cardio a bit. My biggest worry regarding cutting back on the cardio is that my fat loss will slow down. Any thoughts? Thanks.
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Dwood – put simply….if you need more fuel to compensate for more exercise, how is that a better way to lose weight? In other words…keep the weight training 3x a week with 20-30 min of slow cardio (walking or easy pace). Off days HIIT may be too much for you….so just go do some fun activities for 40min. Keep cal/carbs lower on “lifestyle cardio” days, When you get done with a workout….you shouldn’t feel “bonked”….like today I did 30min jog/walk around the park (on my fasting day)…and still haven’t eaten a couple hours after and feel fine….aka my blood sugar is not crashing.
Here’s a full course on fitness that we are finishing up still but tells it all: http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/university/fitness/fitness-101-lose-weight-get-in-shape.htm
BTW: Nice work so far….keep it up!
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when you first outlined how much cardio you were doing I was a little concerned, however I bet you now realize that you were doing too much work. I say drop the HIIT altogether. Stick with the full body training and steady state as Mike said.
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Mike OD:
Ok, I will back off the cardio a bit. I had been reading a lot about “chronic cardio” but I didn’t completely by the idea that I could lost more weight doing less. I figured that my diet was sharp so all the extra cardio would improve the results. My workouts were lasting about 1.5 hours on my weight training days. I’ll make the changes and let you know what happens in a couple of weeks. Thanks.
JC:
Yes, you called it. I think you were the one telling me to back off on the cardio in the beginning but I am hard headed sometimes.:) I going to shoot for a total workout time of an hour or less. Thanks.
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Mike OD,
So for the last few days I have cut my cardio time to 20-30 minutes after my lifting three time a week. I had a couple of questions:
1. How long does it typically take to undo all the damage of excessive cardio? I am sure that I have had elevated cortisol levels for some time and that may have slowed my fat loss progress.
2. I am very strict in terms of my diet during the week. Someone mentioned to me that it might be a good idea to put a “cheat meal” in sometimes to keep my body burning fat. What is your take on this? If anyone else would like to share some insight please feel free.
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cant really answer number 1.
as for 2: I recently wrote about free meals. http://jcdfitness.com/2009/05/diet-breaks-and-free-meals/
As long as you’re in a deficit you will lose body fat but a refeed can bump leptin and other hormones if you have been dieting too long. A free meal is just nice for a mental break from being so strict all the time.
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JC:
I have been at it hard for about six weeks. It might be time for a “cheat meal”. In your article you mentioned that it should not be a day long binge. Is there a number of calories I should stay below? Should I do one of these every week? Thanks for your input.
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I definitely think the free meal should put you over maintenance slightly. I say you pick your favorite restaurant or make your favorite dish at home without worrying about counting kcals for that day. Eat your regular meals throughout the day, then when it comes time for the free meal, just put it away and enjoy it.
If you are going to be meticulous about it and count kcals, I say aim for a 500 kcal surplus.
as far as frequency, this is a tough question. It all depends on the size of the surplus, how lean you are etc. I don’t think it will hurt your fat loss efforts to be in a slight surplus once a week.
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@DWood
Just to jump in on what JC mentioned, I’d suggest putting your free meal on one of your most intensive workout days. You’ll accrue some advantage in nutrient partitioning (more calories going toward muscle repair and glycogen replenishment, less toward fat cells) that will help you in the long term.
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JC:
Thanks for the information. I think I will try to keep the “cheat meal” to something reasonable. I have a good ways to go before I get close to my goal of < 10% so I will not go too crazy with the cheat meal.
Ryan:
Thanks. That makes pretty good sense. I will give it a try.
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DWood – #1) That’s a bit tricky question…as no one really knows the damage done and healing environments can vary…but the body is resilient, so the good news is you should be able to overcome any past issues with a present lifestyle of good foods and rest (sleep is very important esp if you are talking about possible adrenal overload from stressors).. #2) Nothing wrong with a different meal and the advice above from JC and others is right on. I wouldn’t really call it a “cheat meal”….although in a sense it is, but one needs to think about their healthy eating being a lifestyle approach other times…and not be deprived so you need to cheat. Also make your “indulgence” meal something you go out for….as you will not have it around the house tempting you all week…and you can go for a smaller portion, such as a cone of ice cream at a local shop…vs having a gallon sitting in the freezer calling your name every night.
Also if you find yourself in more of a situation where you may be eating foods “not ideal” for a longer period of time (like an all day cookout)…it would be better to break them up into smaller frequent meals to control blood sugar/insulin (of course one can still make better choices at a cookout). Much like how the zone/nutrisystem/weight watchers and all those diet plans allow people to eat pizza, brownies or whatever….but the portions are spread out and small enough that it’s never really a calorie or blood sugar/insulin hormonal overload as far as the whole day is concerned.
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Mike OD:
Thanks for the advice. I was a bit concerned since I have performing chronic cardio for years and it has not gotten me where I needed to be. It is great that my current approach seems to be working but I wonder what are the long term affects of all of the past cardio.
I think you are right about the single meal. My discipline is pretty good I can have a “cheat meal” and call it a day. Actually, I am not really at the stage that I want to cheat and I am craving high carb foods. I just want to make sure my metabolism doesn’t slow too much because I have been dieting hard for about six weeks. In any case, I will incorporate your suggestions. I appreciate your input.
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I like the idea of looking at it in terms of fasting being the norm and feeding being the exception.
If I’m not mistaken, there’s no consesus as to whether IF refers to intermittent fasting or intermittent feeding and whether ADF refers to alternate-day fasting or alternate-day feeding. I see both versions used in the literature.
I guess Fast-5 and other “condensed eating window” approaches have already adopted this line of thinking.
Still, regardless of what you call it, the most important thing is to realize that going without food won’t kill you, despite what your brain tells you when that sweet smell of burgers hits your receptors.
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Hey Mike,
I found today while doing my first IF is that I’m more hungry and I crave carbs whereas if I have breakfast (usually around 8:30-9 am (oats+milk+protein powder+nuts+bran) it keeps me full for a good 2-3 hours. Is that normal? I eat dinner usually before 6 pm. That extra hour (to 10 am) seems to a mental thing more than anything else…eating breakfast normally at 9 am doesn’t bother me and I don’t think about it but that extra hour to 10 am…is that a mental thing having been conditioned all these years that breakfast should be before 9 am?
It’s interesting.
My diet normally consists of 1300 cals a day – usually it’s accurate to 50 cals either way. From what I understand of IF and Brad’s method of the 24 hour fast is that you can eat your normal maintenance cals on non fasting days (in my case it’s 1526 even when I work out and do strength/cardio (I’m 5’1 at 151 lbs) and on IF days it drops to under 1000..am I doing the maths right?
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Sydgal – few things….may just be something that you need to get used to (many do). Hunger is a chemical response that can be stimulated even perhaps by the thought of certain foods (especially carbs). Don’t worry about exact calories every day….as the body thinks longterm in calorie loads over days…weeks….not hours. IF days will typically be lower than normal eating days just because of time constraints…and also IF is not a pass to just pig out (and eat more than normal). Also many who have daily higher intakes of carbs find that hunger is higher (leptin thing)….so cycling low and high carbs days may be of benefit (as I find more AM hunger the day after a higher carb day).
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Actually yesterday it went really well – I attempted another IF to go to the full 16 hours – 6 pm to 10 am and it worked beautifully. I did keep myself busy and didn’t give myself time to think about food which was great. My next goal is to do it for another 2 hours and hike it up to 18 hours but I’m going to fully master the 16 hours before heading out.
I took your advice about lowering the carbs at night which seems to have helped a great deal. Geez Mike you sure know what you are talking about
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Sydgal, don’t tell him that…you’re gonna make his head even bigger than it already is.
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Oopsie…is that unwritten rule, Skustes?
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No worries…I just shave my head so my hats still fit.
Sydgal – You can play with 16-18 as you see fit and depending on how you feel. Remember it’s a tool to use however you need to….you can alternate it as well doing 16-18-16-18 or whatever you choose. Also take days off, as remember the “I” in IF stands for intermittent. In the end….enjoy what you do and make it a lasting solution.
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Mike OD/JC:
I just thought that I would give you an update. So far I am down about 28lbs total. I checked my bodyfat this week and it seems that I actually gained a little lean body mass so cutting back on the cardio was definitely a good idea. I have also stopped performing my 24 hr fasts on days in which I perform resistance training. On those days I eat more protein. I’m hoping that this will allow me to at least retain all of my LBM while I am dieting down.
The IF + Paleo + HIIT/Resistance Training is paying off big time. I have not been this weight since I was in my twenties. I still have a way to go before I make it to my goal weight but I am encouraged by the results I have achieved so far. Thanks again for your feedback.
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DWood, that is great to hear. Glad that you are finding a sweet spot in your training/diet regimen. I think it’s a good idea to consume more protein on your training days. This can only help with the LBM retention.
I don’t know/care too much about the paleo ideals, however it’s good that you found something you can adhere to. As I always say, never attempt to fix what is working so well.
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Dwood – Great job! Keep it up! Yes….looks like your body has been wanting to build some muscle but the excess cardio in the past was putting the breaks on it (kind of like how a pro athlete will easily gain 15-20lbs of muscle in the offseason with any kind of training….because they are just doing more resting and eating vs the heavy activity load during the season).
A fun thing to do may also to take pictures every few weeks. Where you look in the mirror everyday…it’s hard to see the changes that happen. But compare pictures from a month ago to now…and you may see more drastic differences. Not only that….when you look at your more heavy pictures and then see yourself at a lower BF….the funny thing is most people may look at the pictures and guess you may actually be heavier when you are more cut….yet you are 30+ lbs lighter…..funny how that works sometimes.
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JC:
Yes, things are working pretty well. I had been doing six days of cardio for 60 minutes on top of a typical six day bodybuilding training split for years and not seeing results. I’m doing a whole lot less workout wise and just changing what/how I eat I am dropping about 2.5 – 3lbs a week. Sometimes I look back on what I was doing and wonder what I was thinking.
Mike OD:
I was very surprised that I added any muscle since my weight workout volume is dramatically reduced. I would have been happy not to lose any more muscle during the time I was dropping weight but I am not going to complain about the extra muscle bonus.
I was thinking about taking some pictures to use as motivation just in case I thought about slacking off once I hit my goal. I’ve lost a bit of weight on my face so a lot of people have commented on how I look smaller. I have been a bigger guy for a long time so it will be interesting to see what I look like at a much lighter weight.
By the way, what is realistic body fat percentage to maintain? I would like to get down to 6% but I wonder if this is a realistic one to be able to maintain year round.
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realistic body fat to maintain is dependent on the individual. I would say anywhere from 8-12% for most folks. Again, it’s hard to say, really.
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Hey guys
LOVE your site. all your blogs are so different to the usual fitness and health crap thats pumped in fitness magazines.. any magazines for that matter..
I’m totally on the IF bandwagon. Ive read the whole series on here on how fasting affects the body.. but i’ve got a question.
Lately I’ve been reading alot about Leptin (the hormone responsible for putting your body in starvation mode) from this guy Joel Marion, its heaps interesting and I see the logic in what he’s saying but I’d like to know how fasting affects leptin?
Any ideas?
Thanks guys
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lol nice spam comment.
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its not spam its a genuine question!
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@Becs – Leptin naturally declines during any fasting period (even over night…as we all fast while we sleep) and then will increase with “refeeding” (especially it seems with higher carb intake vs just fat intake). While the IF approaches we talk about here are usually 16-24 hours max, we also encourage having days to “refeed” carbs (without going overboard on calorie intake), Like any hormone, it has natural cycles of going up and down (leptin, insulin, GH, cortisol, glucagon). More overweight people actually have issues with leptin resistance, as there have been studies with administering more leptin to overweight people but it did nothing to increase weight loss. So using an IF plan and some carb cycling is a very effective way to attack that issue (as well as decrease insulin resistance and burn fat).
As for using the word “cheat meals” (which people usually tie into leptin and refeeds)….you can actually see Scott’s article recently on the mental approach to flexible eating:
http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2009/10/12/cheat-meals/
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This IF seems very interesting. I am trying it for the first time right now but I am wondering if I am doing it correctly. I ate dinner last night at 8pm and I won’t eat again until 8pm tonight. Now do I eat normally from 8pm tonight (breakfast -lunch-dinner) to 8pm Friday night. Is this correct?
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@William
It really depends on how you set it up, but yes, that is the general idea.
Since it sounds like you are wanting to do a 24 hour fast, you have it right. Basically fast for 24 hours like you did from 8 to 8 and then eat your usual meals for the next few days like you normally would.
Ideally, you want to spread the fasts out with a few days in between as opposed to every other day. How many are you planning on doing per week? I wouldn’t do any more than 2. Just my opinion, tho.
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@William – I would read the intermittent fasting 101 post as well, because there are different ways in which people use IF. The key is making sure that you:
a) Don’t use it as an excuse to eat crap (or as I like to say IF on Crap, IFOC, doesn’t work)
b) Don’t binge or eat out of proportion because of it (give into hunger cravings)
c) Don’t overuse it (as you still need calories and to eat)
Other than that, it is up to you to find how it best fits into your lifestyle for results and enjoyments. Try it a couple times a week at first, and just see how you react to it as we are all different. You may find a way down the road and adjust as you go as IF is just a “tool” to use in your life, not a set diet plan.
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Thanks Mike and JC. I am about at the 18th hour right now and I’m still feeling pretty good. I went to the gym with my wife. I worked her out pretty good, but I did only stretching myself. For dinner, I plan on having a nice ribeye, baked potato with a few toppings…nothing crazy and a side salad. I have tried the small meal deal every three hours and its just not happening. I’m pretty muscular but I haven’t been able to get rid of the gut. Maybe IF willl be the answer.
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well, IF may or may not be the magic bullet. At the end of the day, the diet that works best is the diet you can stick to long term. Adherence comes in many forms, you just have to find what works best for you.
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First off – this has to be one of my favorite websites, love the content and I really appreciate the time you and Scott take to break things down…I’ve had a question for awhile, but couldn’t really figure out how to ask it without writing a book – didn’t figure it out, so I’m apologizing in advance for the length of this post….
okay – now my question, but first a little background – I have had chronic headaches in the past. I mean bad chronic headaches. After being told by 2 allergists, an ENT and a neurologist that I have chronic migraines – I finally found a chiropractor that relieved the pressure and strain (turns out I have forward head posture – think ET neck
) and has worked my neck back to the way it’s supposed to be. I’ve been seeing her since March, and hadn’t had the headaches (in that severity) since about May/June…
I tried integrating IF into my schedule in August. Basically a 7 hour feeding window Monday-Friday, then Saturday and Sunday off. It was not difficult to adapt to eating in the window, but my massive headaches came back. Tension headaches. Headaches that OTC meds will not touch…strangely reminiscent of my other headaches, but according to the chiro, my neck’s in good shape.
At first I thought it was withdrawal, adjusting to the new routine, etc. But they still persisted – these daily chronic tension headaches. From the temples of my head down to through the base of my neck. So then I thought it was too much caffeine or AS (I was using coffee/cream and diet softdrinks to get me to the feeding window) so I stopped drinking diet softdrinks about 2 months ago and reduced my coffee intake by 1/2 last month, hoping that would help. No dice…
– if anything they were worse for awhile (withdrawal) then went back to the chronic nagging pain.
So, I ditched the IF schedule for awhile – I noticed that when I ate (not junk, healthy food), my headache eased up…so I started doing some research on that. And now I have come to my question (bet you were wondering when that would happen huh?) The question is…have you come across any research on serotonin depletion? I think my headaches are coming from this depletion – since your brain releases serotonin after a meal, and I get relief when I eat… My mom’s deficient and on an antidepressant – which from what I’ve been able to tell is the standard protocol for treatment of chronic tension headaches. With the help of the chiro (and pretty much eliminating/limiting my dairy/grain consumption) I’ve been able to stop using 3-5 different prescription drugs – I’m currently taking allergy injections every other week, but that’s it. So the last thing I want to do is go to the doc – who’s best option is going to give me an antidepressant.
I started taking 5-HTP this week, and in one of the most jacked up weather areas around (the Ohio Valley) – my headaches have definitely eased up, which is awesome given the freaky weather patterns we’ve been having, Is it the 5-HTP? Or the fact that I’m eating breakfast again?
okay – so that was more than one question – again, I apologize – but would love to get your insight – thanks!
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Mike OD Reply:
Jenn – Interesting stuff. Are you following a low carb diet? Serotonin will get released from carb based meals (hence people “feel good” after eating sweets….only to come crashing down later again). So having more carbs (whole foods) in your diet may be better for you, as remember carbs are not evil especially when they are real food based. As far as migraines go artificial sweeteners are huge suspects (diet sodas, foods, etc), so removing them should help out. Caffeine also constricts blood vessels, esp in the neck…..which may contribute to possible migraine issues as well. I think you are on the right track though removing things from your diet to see how you respond, as that is the true way to know what works. Good and consistent sleep patterns also help regulate your natural hormonal circadian rhythms (serotonin, melatonin). Get all those in order before you worry about using IF again (and if you ever want to go back to using it I would suggest less often….and maybe only 1x a week to start, but you can make it a longer fast to generate different hormonal stress responses).
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I’m following a general low-carb, whole food diet. Started with South Beach, migrated to Atkins – but really don’t like the phases (or the fake food), ladders, etc. So I’m now just trying to eat whole foods….no counting…
Of course, that can also hurt…I have no idea how many carbs I’m getting on a daily basis. Some days it may be a little high, but others might be pretty low – depends on hunger and what’s in the house. I’ve added fruit back to my diet – I also like Panu principles – but I just may need to keep the fruit for the carbs. But fruit and potatoes are pretty much my only sources of “major” carbs since I try to really limit the pasta/bread.
I may try IF again at some point – I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something (it’s usually right in front of my face – lol) – thanks for your time!
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JC Reply:
Not sure how long this one’s been up but sorry for missing it if it’s been up long. I know you said you aren’t counting kcals but are worried about how many carbs you’re eating.
I am not sure exactly what your question is?
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Martin Berkhan Reply:
Jenn,
From my site, perhaps this can be of help:
“During Ramadan fasting, migraine-suffereres reported that migraines occurred more frequently during the fast. The researchers speculated that it was likely due to blood glucose dropping or dehydration. My bet is on the latter.”
So, are you drinking enough? Some people have trouble drinking enough when left to their own devices and need to make a conscious effort to drink more fluids during the fast. The blood glucose-theory of migraine may or may not be that legit, considering that blood glucose remains remarkably stable during fasting for up to 48 hrs (yes, it’s been studied).
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Mike OD Reply:
Nevermind, original comment removed. Saw her mention of migraines in the other comment above.
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Jenn Reply:
The initial question (in the post above this one) was asking about research regarding fasting and serotonin depletion – you just had to read a book to get there
I had read that dehydration could also be a problem – I usually do a good job with that – I sit at a desk, so it’s pretty easy…
It’s sad that I have a hard time even updating – without writing another book…I won’t bore you with the details. I took out the fasting and concentrated on just eating real food – with a conscious effort to include more fruit and starch (since that was lacking) – the results were mixed – so I added the IF back in, 1-2x a week. I really like the daily better, though – I’m still taking the 5-HTP, and I do feel it helps. I’d actually decided this weekend that I need to plug my stuff into Fitday – I just hate to do it. I lost 70 lbs several years ago by counting, but it was pure low fat, low calorie – not really concentrating on real food. After counting for 5 years, I got burned out…
I’m currently looking at other factors – my desk at work is horrible – something from the 70s, not ergonomic at all. The opportunity for a new desk is nil (I don’t have the best working situation at the moment), and I’m using what I have to try and make do (yes, come July – I will be looking to change my work environment). I just recently had my eyes examined – making sure my “blind as a bat” vision hadn’t taken a turn for the worse, causing strain.
But I feel a real factor has to be stress. I am a stressed out person. Way too many irons in the fire and not nearly enough hands (or hours in the day). I’m trying to work on that as well – but it’s slow going.
hmm…I said I wouldn’t write a book, but I lied
– sorry guys – I don’t really have anyone “like minded” around to bounce things off of. Plenty of SAD – not nearly enough interest in looking into alternatives. I really appreciate all the help you’ve given -
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Mike OD Reply:
“I am a stressed out person. Way too many irons in the fire and not nearly enough hands (or hours in the day). I’m trying to work on that as well – but it’s slow going.”
Yes stress is a killer, and does not mix well with fasting either. Also exercise, primarily some strength based training, is key to helping maintain that “fat burning” muscle around. People who are lean and stay that way tend to have a good base of lean muscle (don’t worry about bulking up, won’t happen).
May also want to check out some of the ramblings I have in this post on IF….some may relate to your lifestyle as well.
http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2010/03/19/25-fasting-foods-results/
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Jenn Reply:
Thanks Mike – I read all of the posts…I’m kind of a stalker
– yes, stress does make fasting harder – but I’m a pretty hard-headed person (which I think it a good chunk of my problem) – I see things very black and white – so I try to move heaven and earth to make them the way I see them. Anyway – I’m working on it…
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Mike OD Reply:
Remember that stress is mostly “internally” created, in how you perceive and react to things around you…based on what you give importance to. Most of the time it is also based on some future deadline or event that is not here yet. Focus on what just needs to happen now and the future will come soon enough. No use wasting energy on anything that you can not take action on right this moment! One step at a time…the only way to live life.
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Mike and JC – let me know what you think:
I understand that when people talk about “Intermittent Fasting” they are either referring to “eat stop eat” (fast 24 hurs 1-2x a week) or “warrior diet/fast-5/leangains” (xx fast/xx feed)
have you ever experience using a combination of both?
for a athlete who competes in competitions in events like judo, wrestling, or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, do you recommend this type of “lifestyle”?
what do you recommend for someone that trains twice a day or for an excessive of 4 hours per day? (as far as the fasting/timing)
thanks
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JC Reply:
Troy,
In my personal opinion, if I were training 2 times per day like I used to back in high school athletics, there’s no way I would even think about fasting.
I feel that nutrition around your training is very important, especially when you’re an athlete – recovery should be on the top of your list. I’d say to eat normally and not worry about fasting.
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Troy Reply:
JC,
thanks man, but only once in a while (maybe 1-3 times a week) i get to do 2-a-days. probably on my non 2 a days training, and intermittent fast? or a day of complete rest, a 24 hr fast?
what do you think of IF when training looks like this: sports training (BJJ): 1-2 hrs, pwo shake than lifting weights? do this 2-3 times a week with NO 2-a-day (morn & night) split?
of course, I’ll rest when i need to, to be careful of not over training….
my goal is to have low bodyfat, keep my weight down (for weigh ins), and still be athletic and strong.
thanks again
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JC Reply:
well, I suppose you could do the fast 16 – 8 hour eating window a few times per week on the days you are training only once.
this would be ideal if you train later in the day, say 3-4pm as opposed to morning training. I’m only saying this because it’s easy to skip breakfast and early lunch to eat kcals later in the day as opposed to eating all your kcals in the morning and fasting through the evening. Well, that may not be true for everyone but it’s been true for me and many others I’ve chatted with.
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Mike OD Reply:
“have you ever experience using a combination of both?”
Yes…it is something I do right now. Technically, everyone eats in a “condensed eating window” because you go to sleep….and then don’t eat until you wake. I usually prolong it because I don’t like eating big meals in the AM. My days are anywhere between 8-12 hour windows with a cutoff at 8pm weekdays. I throw in a longer fast here and there (1x a week, sometimes 2x) all depending oh how I feel and my recovery needs.
As far as people who are very active, eating for recovery comes first. Something more like a “Warrior Diet” style approach may be best for you (eating lighter meals during the day, bigger ones at night) to make sure you are getting in all the macronutrients and calories you need. If weight loss is the goal, you could still lose weight and cut back on calories. If you can condense your eating window down and still make it work, more power to you.
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Troy Reply:
JC and Mike,
thanks for your input!!! I’m excited and been doing this for a week. (did a little of both). Felt like cr@p the first week until my 24 hour fast, which I felt fine… I’m still trying to dial how i feel on IF (both ways – combo) and researching a TON of info. I have not read the Warrior Diet just yet, but will very soon.
Mike, sounds like you live more of a lifestyle on the “Warrior Diet” and a combo of a 24 hr fast OR the fast/feed approach depending on your day? sounds like you have a schedule like mines. lol. Very interesting AND motivating. I thought I was the only one with a weird schedule, thus I have a hard time finding answers more suited to my needs/days.
Another question is concerning Lyle Mcdonald’s approach to fat loss. i’ve read what you recommended in the HIIT and SS cardio approach. would you still do this approach AFTER your weight training? would you do SS cardio AFTER your sport specific workout? ie: after practice from BJJ/Judo?
thanks
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Mike OD Reply:
Life is always a changing schedule….so your eating approach should also be flexible. IF is a tool to help you understand how to eat, and then you can adjust as you go. For example…this week I have 4 ice hockey games, so a long fast is not going to happen this week as I will need the calories to recover…and I may switch to more food earlier in the day and trail off to nothing much 2-3 hours before my game, so I am not bogged down by digestion. This could flip next week if I only have 1 game, but I know how to adjust on the fly and more importantly listen to my body. I would do a minimal interval session (5-10min) after weight training and then 20+min of incline walking on a treadmill at the gym. The goal being there that after a hard intense workout you “free up” more stored fats and keep them burning with the SS afterwards. After you do more sport specific stuff which is generally longer and less anaerobic, there is no real need for SS.
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