Comments on: What You Can Learn about Fat Loss and Gain from Sumo Wrestlers http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/ Intermittent Feeding & Fasting for a Lean Lifestyle Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:20:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Mike OD http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1167 Mike OD Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:55:57 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1167 SkyKing - I read about half of it and realized how messed up and rediculous that study is. Basically they had people eating 1000 cal a day for 8 months? Others eating a big breakfast with 1250 cal a day? The total calories aren't even the same! It has NOTHING to do with breakfast, as the calories are what mattered. The first group lost the most fat and then their metabolism crashed and they started to gain weight back....not shocking when you deprive the body of calories. The other group lost more weight of course at that point. Plus people still use the line "Well if you eat a full breakfast you won't eat as much later". The article even states it here: "She said: "Research shows that eating breakfast can actually help people control their weight. "This is probably because when we don't have breakfast we're more likely to get hungry before lunch and snack on foods that are high in fat and sugar, such as biscuits, doughnuts or pastries." It's all about daily calories....always has...always will be....not breakfast is the most important meal of the day because otherwise you gain fat later....that's a bunch of BS. SkyKing – I read about half of it and realized how messed up and rediculous that study is. Basically they had people eating 1000 cal a day for 8 months? Others eating a big breakfast with 1250 cal a day? The total calories aren’t even the same! It has NOTHING to do with breakfast, as the calories are what mattered. The first group lost the most fat and then their metabolism crashed and they started to gain weight back….not shocking when you deprive the body of calories. The other group lost more weight of course at that point. Plus people still use the line “Well if you eat a full breakfast you won’t eat as much later”. The article even states it here: “She said: “Research shows that eating breakfast can actually help people control their weight. “This is probably because when we don’t have breakfast we’re more likely to get hungry before lunch and snack on foods that are high in fat and sugar, such as biscuits, doughnuts or pastries.”
It’s all about daily calories….always has…always will be….not breakfast is the most important meal of the day because otherwise you gain fat later….that’s a bunch of BS.

]]> By: SkyKing http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1168 SkyKing Tue, 24 Jun 2008 02:41:25 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1168 Speaking of skipping breakfast....what do you make of this recent report from the BBC on a US researcher's findings that eating breakfast, especially a BIG breakfast causes people to lose the most weight...?! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7460729.stm SkyKing Speaking of skipping breakfast….what do you make of this recent report from the BBC on a US researcher’s findings that eating breakfast, especially a BIG breakfast causes people to lose the most weight…?!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7460729.stm

SkyKing

]]> By: ElamBend http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1172 ElamBend Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:40:36 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1172 The huge workouts are an issue too. Gary Taubes hits on this in his book, big workouts=big appetites. I think too often that Americans in order to lose weight focus on length of workouts as opposed to diet (or maybe in order to justify diets, focus on length of workouts). The problems with this are two fold, one such workouts make you hungrier, two if you stop the workouts, but maintain the diet, you get fat quickly (and there is a likely hight insulin resistance). Also, just how intensely can a long workout be and don't forget rest. Sometimes less really is more. The huge workouts are an issue too. Gary Taubes hits on this in his book, big workouts=big appetites. I think too often that Americans in order to lose weight focus on length of workouts as opposed to diet (or maybe in order to justify diets, focus on length of workouts). The problems with this are two fold, one such workouts make you hungrier, two if you stop the workouts, but maintain the diet, you get fat quickly (and there is a likely hight insulin resistance). Also, just how intensely can a long workout be and don’t forget rest. Sometimes less really is more.

]]> By: Mike OD http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1171 Mike OD Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:37:24 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1171 John - If one meal works for you...then I would gladly say stick with it...however I did find research on meal frequency (as this is the infamous study that people try to use to debunk IF): "Impact of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction on glucose regulation in healthy, normal-weight middle-aged men and women. An unresolved issue in the field of diet and health is if and how changes in meal frequency affect energy metabolism in humans. We therefore evaluated the influence of reduced meal frequency without a reduction in energy intake on glucose metabolism in normal-weight, healthy male and female subjects. The study was a randomized crossover design, with two 8-week treatment periods (with an intervening 11-week off-diet period) in which subjects consumed all of their calories for weight maintenance distributed in either 3 meals or 1 meal per day (consumed between 4:00 pm and 8:00 pm). Energy metabolism was evaluated at designated time points throughout the study by performing morning oral glucose tolerance tests and measuring levels of glucose, insulin, glucagon, leptin, ghrelin, adiponectin, resistin, and brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). Subjects consuming 1 meal per day exhibited higher morning fasting plasma glucose levels, greater and more sustained elevations of plasma glucose concentrations, and a delayed insulin response in the oral glucose tolerance test compared with subjects consuming 3 meals per day. Levels of ghrelin were elevated in response to the 1-meal-per-day regimen. Fasting levels of insulin, leptin, ghrelin, adiponectin, resistin, and BDNF were not significantly affected by meal frequency. Subjects consuming a single large daily meal exhibit elevated fasting glucose levels and impaired morning glucose tolerance associated with a delayed insulin response during a 2-month diet period compared with those consuming 3 meals per day. The impaired glucose tolerance was reversible and was not associated with alterations in the levels of adipokines or BDNF." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17998028?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum There are still so many other variables as to what a person is eating and so forth. That and if you want one large meal...then spread it out like they do in foreign countries (well foreign to me being in the US). Where they have several courses over hours enjoying company of friends and family. That's not such a bad thing. John – If one meal works for you…then I would gladly say stick with it…however I did find research on meal frequency (as this is the infamous study that people try to use to debunk IF):

“Impact of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction on glucose regulation in healthy, normal-weight middle-aged men and women.

An unresolved issue in the field of diet and health is if and how changes in meal frequency affect energy metabolism in humans. We therefore evaluated the influence of reduced meal frequency without a reduction in energy intake on glucose metabolism in normal-weight, healthy male and female subjects. The study was a randomized crossover design, with two 8-week treatment periods (with an intervening 11-week off-diet period) in which subjects consumed all of their calories for weight maintenance distributed in either 3 meals or 1 meal per day (consumed between 4:00 pm and 8:00 pm). Energy metabolism was evaluated at designated time points throughout the study by performing morning oral glucose tolerance tests and measuring levels of glucose, insulin, glucagon, leptin, ghrelin, adiponectin, resistin, and brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). Subjects consuming 1 meal per day exhibited higher morning fasting plasma glucose levels, greater and more sustained elevations of plasma glucose concentrations, and a delayed insulin response in the oral glucose tolerance test compared with subjects consuming 3 meals per day. Levels of ghrelin were elevated in response to the 1-meal-per-day regimen. Fasting levels of insulin, leptin, ghrelin, adiponectin, resistin, and BDNF were not significantly affected by meal frequency. Subjects consuming a single large daily meal exhibit elevated fasting glucose levels and impaired morning glucose tolerance associated with a delayed insulin response during a 2-month diet period compared with those consuming 3 meals per day. The impaired glucose tolerance was reversible and was not associated with alterations in the levels of adipokines or BDNF.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17998028?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

There are still so many other variables as to what a person is eating and so forth. That and if you want one large meal…then spread it out like they do in foreign countries (well foreign to me being in the US). Where they have several courses over hours enjoying company of friends and family. That’s not such a bad thing.

]]> By: JohnN http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1170 JohnN Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:19:06 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1170 Hi Mike, Regarding this point: "Eating only 1 large meal is not a good idea, several smaller meals should be the goal ." I don't believe you'd find a study to back this up. For controlling blood sugar, yes (wrong approach, I believe). But not with the objective of minimizing total daily insulin output. The fact that this is practiced by Sumo wrestlers is not good enough reason to reject it. The wreslers are trying to raise the threshold beyond which they become diabetic (where all the calories are excreted in urine and further weight gain becomes impossible); the other reason is that it is impractical to make a living in physical high-intensity sport and spend all the available time eating. As far as the so-called warrior diet is concerned you can find strong parallel here with the ancient hunter-gatherers - only the ruminants have the need to graze. The other point: what is one-meal-a-day if not IF in spirit? Hi Mike,
Regarding this point:
“Eating only 1 large meal is not a good idea, several smaller meals should be the goal .”
I don’t believe you’d find a study to back this up. For controlling blood sugar, yes (wrong approach, I believe). But not with the objective of minimizing total daily insulin output. The fact that this is practiced by Sumo wrestlers is not good enough reason to reject it. The wreslers are trying to raise the threshold beyond which they become diabetic (where all the calories are excreted in urine and further weight gain becomes impossible); the other reason is that it is impractical to make a living in physical high-intensity sport and spend all the available time eating.
As far as the so-called warrior diet is concerned you can find strong parallel here with the ancient hunter-gatherers – only the ruminants have the need to graze. The other point: what is one-meal-a-day if not IF in spirit?

]]> By: Mike OD http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1169 Mike OD Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:30:21 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1169 Interesting enough I think the avg lifespan was like somewhere around 65, which was 10 years less the avg Japanese man's lifespan....but I've seen varied numbers on that all. I've also seen where their blood work is "normal" because most of the fat is subcontaneous and not visceral...which is more a danger to people. Many also try to lose weight after they are done competing and many suffer from more problems once they stop training and competing and probably start eating a normal 3-4x a day eating program and not training. <strong>One would wonder if training fasted for hours and only eating 1 meal a day gave them great health benefits from the aspect of having little insulin resistance factors (only one insulin spike a day....high insulin resitance increases risks of many diseases)....of course still eating 20,000 cal is going to make you pretty fat. One may also guess their health really started to deteriorate only later in life when retired and they adopt the '"standard" eating all day pattern and stop exercising. </strong> (just me thinking outloud) Keli - The main concern of a big meal is making sure you are not spiking your insulin before bed. 500 calories is not "larger" by any means....so if that's as big as it gets then you are fine. A high insulin spike before bed will keep your GH response lowered...and that is not what you want. Keeping the meal smaller and mostly protein and fat also (limit carbs/sugars before bed as they will raise insulin quickly)....anything too large (1000s of calories) or having loads of sugar/carbs will raise insulin too high. GH is 75% released in the first 2 hours of sleep...and is important in health, muscle, and fat loss. But high insulin = low GH. Hence people who get little sleep may also have a hard time losing weight because of how messed up their hormones are. Ricky - I like the WD approach personally...lighter meals during the day/early in the eating window for IF and a larger meal at night (but not too late). Of course a larger meal of 1500 cal is not the same as the sumo wrestlers meal of 20,000 calories talked about above. There is a point of diminishing returns....like trying to put down 3000 cal in one meal (and not eating anything else all day long) will probably end up as fat unless you are really really active every day also. So, it does work and can work....but there is always a point at which it can spillover and make more fat. 1500 calories is probably not going to do too much...especially if most of it is protein and healthy fats....but it's still about 2 things for fat loss...total calories for the day and insulin control/response. Helder - so true...it's easier to be and stay fit...once you are already there. Interesting enough I think the avg lifespan was like somewhere around 65, which was 10 years less the avg Japanese man’s lifespan….but I’ve seen varied numbers on that all. I’ve also seen where their blood work is “normal” because most of the fat is subcontaneous and not visceral…which is more a danger to people. Many also try to lose weight after they are done competing and many suffer from more problems once they stop training and competing and probably start eating a normal 3-4x a day eating program and not training. One would wonder if training fasted for hours and only eating 1 meal a day gave them great health benefits from the aspect of having little insulin resistance factors (only one insulin spike a day….high insulin resitance increases risks of many diseases)….of course still eating 20,000 cal is going to make you pretty fat. One may also guess their health really started to deteriorate only later in life when retired and they adopt the ‘”standard” eating all day pattern and stop exercising. (just me thinking outloud)

Keli – The main concern of a big meal is making sure you are not spiking your insulin before bed. 500 calories is not “larger” by any means….so if that’s as big as it gets then you are fine. A high insulin spike before bed will keep your GH response lowered…and that is not what you want. Keeping the meal smaller and mostly protein and fat also (limit carbs/sugars before bed as they will raise insulin quickly)….anything too large (1000s of calories) or having loads of sugar/carbs will raise insulin too high. GH is 75% released in the first 2 hours of sleep…and is important in health, muscle, and fat loss. But high insulin = low GH. Hence people who get little sleep may also have a hard time losing weight because of how messed up their hormones are.

Ricky – I like the WD approach personally…lighter meals during the day/early in the eating window for IF and a larger meal at night (but not too late). Of course a larger meal of 1500 cal is not the same as the sumo wrestlers meal of 20,000 calories talked about above. There is a point of diminishing returns….like trying to put down 3000 cal in one meal (and not eating anything else all day long) will probably end up as fat unless you are really really active every day also. So, it does work and can work….but there is always a point at which it can spillover and make more fat. 1500 calories is probably not going to do too much…especially if most of it is protein and healthy fats….but it’s still about 2 things for fat loss…total calories for the day and insulin control/response.

Helder – so true…it’s easier to be and stay fit…once you are already there.

]]> By: Helder http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1160 Helder Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:29:05 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1160 I think this sentence says it all "Understanding how to gain fat is probably one of the best ways on learning how to lose fat…..as now you know what NOT to do." There's another one that says: "The best way to lose fat is to never get fat" and this post is good for both sentences I think this sentence says it all

“Understanding how to gain fat is probably one of the best ways on learning how to lose fat…..as now you know what NOT to do.”

There’s another one that says: “The best way to lose fat is to never get fat” and this post is good for both sentences

]]> By: Ricky http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1161 Ricky Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:28:52 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1161 Great point, this has always bugged me. One thing, though. You say to spread your calories over smaller meals. This is fine, but I have seen some great results from Ori Hoffmeklar's The Warrior Diet, which is intermittent fasting with 20 hours of undereating and 4 hours of overeating, usually in one main meal. The author is ripped at over 50 years of age, and usually eats a meal consisting of 1500-3000 calories. What problems do you find with large meals? Great point, this has always bugged me. One thing, though. You say to spread your calories over smaller meals. This is fine, but I have seen some great results from Ori Hoffmeklar’s The Warrior Diet, which is intermittent fasting with 20 hours of undereating and 4 hours of overeating, usually in one main meal. The author is ripped at over 50 years of age, and usually eats a meal consisting of 1500-3000 calories. What problems do you find with large meals?

]]> By: Keli http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1166 Keli Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:54:24 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1166 Is it necessarily a bad thing to go to sleep shortly after eating, or is it only bad when the meal is heavy? I often sleep shortly after eating a meal of, on average, 300 - 500 calories - not because the meal is so heavy, of course, but because I'm a full time student and work full time as well, so I'm often quite tired! I'm trying to get out of this habit, but I would like to know what effect immediate sleep has on the body with a meal of that size. Thanks for any help - love the site, I stumbled across it only a few days ago and it's been extremely informative! Is it necessarily a bad thing to go to sleep shortly after eating, or is it only bad when the meal is heavy? I often sleep shortly after eating a meal of, on average, 300 – 500 calories – not because the meal is so heavy, of course, but because I’m a full time student and work full time as well, so I’m often quite tired! I’m trying to get out of this habit, but I would like to know what effect immediate sleep has on the body with a meal of that size.
Thanks for any help – love the site, I stumbled across it only a few days ago and it’s been extremely informative!

]]> By: Rodney http://www.theiflife.com/what-you-can-learn-about-fat-loss-and-gain-from-sumo-wrestlers/comment-page-1/#comment-1163 Rodney Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:10:13 +0000 http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/?p=77#comment-1163 I would be curious to know what the typical life expectancy of a sumo wrestler is, along with the incidence of chronic diseases mentioned above? I would be curious to know what the typical life expectancy of a sumo wrestler is, along with the incidence of chronic diseases mentioned above?

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